Workforce Development: Building the Next Generation | E. 102

Geoffrey (00:00):

Access to care and access to education go hand in hand. But what we also know is that these access to care delays have a significant impact on the bottom line of the healthcare system. If you study it over time, whether it's an imaging study, whether it's other diagnostic related things, any time you don't have the workforce to operate a specific piece of medical equipment. Just on reimbursement alone, you could be looking at a million dollars a month. Just think about that.

Introduction (00:29):

Welcome to the Healthcare Leadership Experience podcast, hosted by Lisa Miller and Jim Cagliostro. Lisa is the founder of VIE Healthcare Consulting and now Managing Director at SpendMend. Lisa and her team has generated over $1 billion in financial improvements for VIE clients since 1999. 

Since 2007, Jim, has been a registered nurse working in critical care, perioperative services, and outpatient settings at nationally recognized medical facilities across three states. 

You'll hear conversations on relevant and trending topics in healthcare and much more. 

Now here's your hosts, Lisa and Jim.

Jim (01:09):

Hi, this is Jim Cagliostro, and you're listening to the Healthcare Leadership Experience. Today's guest is Geoffrey Roche, director of Workforce Development for North America with Siemens Healthineers. Geoffrey, I know workforce development is not just what you do, but it's something you're very passionate about. So I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Welcome and thanks for joining us.

Geoffrey (01:28):

Thanks, Jim. Thanks for having me.

Jim (01:30):

I should ask, what are the Siemens Healthineers if you don't mind just sharing briefly about that and we'll jump into some of our questions here.

Geoffrey (01:36):

Yeah, so obviously, many people know Siemens as an organization because obviously there's many different companies within Siemens. Healthineers is the healthcare side of Siemens. Some people also know it as Siemens Medical Corporation, Siemens Medical Services. But Healthineers was a name given that really reflects that our workforce at Siemens that are pioneers in breakthroughs in medicine. And so when you think about mission, the Siemens Healthineers workforce really aligns that we are pioneers in enabling breakthroughs in medicine. And so that connection is why the name is that way.

Jim (02:13):

Great. Great. I love it. So actually, I was thinking is there an engineer's connection with that? I know Siemens are the technology, but great, thank you for sharing that. So really, I wanted to talk about this idea of workforce development. I know you're passionate about it, so I'd like to ask, what's our current state of affairs? How are we doing in terms of building and preparing the next generation of workforce, in your opinion?

Geoffrey (02:33):

Yeah, we sit at a huge inflection point. Probably without question the most challenging time in our nation's healthcare workforce is, as we speak today, certainly not that dissimilar from 2023. And when we look at it, we've got a significant supply and demand challenge. We know that there are not enough individuals graduating from college in pretty much every aspect of a healthcare program.

Jim (03:07):

Sure.

Geoffrey (03:07):

We also know that retention still remains a very significant challenge, whether it's a clinical role or a nonclinical role. I think we have to be honest though about the impact that we are all seeing and will continue to face, particularly in the licensed areas of our healthcare system. It doesn't go a day where I talk to somebody and they share an access to care delay, whether it's in imaging, whether it's in lab, whether it's in outpatient or inpatient services. We're certainly at a very, very difficult time.

Jim (03:40):

That's something you mentioned. And actually, I wanted to share on your LinkedIn profile, you have "son of a nurse leading with heart and purpose." That stood out to me. As a nurse, that stands out. But then the second thing you mentioned is “inspiring and equipping leaders in the eds and meds”. And you mentioned the education part of it, the licensing. That's a great part that I really wasn't even thinking about. So would you say, are we in the same situation when it comes to the clinical bedside workforce as we are when it comes to leadership and management roles? I know you mentioned the licensing and education, but is there also an issue with the leadership side of things?

Geoffrey (04:14):

So if you look at sheer attrition, absolutely. We have seen larger numbers of individuals at middle management all the way up to senior executive management leaving our healthcare systems. Some of that in all honesty is not a bad thing because in some cases we've had leaders that aren't necessarily probably practicing the right leadership that's really required today in healthcare.

Jim (04:41):

Sure.

Geoffrey (04:41):

In my opinion, we have had far too much transactional leadership in healthcare as compared to true heart-centered transformational leadership. And so at the same time, when you lose people that have a lot of experience, we also know that that can impact organizations. But the issue of burnout is a good example where we're seeing it at clinical, but we're also seeing it even among other professionals and other leaders in healthcare. It's a very, very real issue. And it's a unique sector as we all buzz, we both know having worked in it that you're so people focused, we don't always take care of ourselves because we're so externally people-focused. And so it's impacted across the board.

Jim (05:23):

Well, and I'll echo that. I know I had mentioned to you about, you posted even this morning about this video of really seeing people, the humanity and making sure we care for the caregivers and talking about moral injury and burnout and things like that. These are important things. You mentioned something in terms of the leadership side that there's an issue of this transactional approach to leadership versus a heart centered. Would you say that's just kind of the historical way things have been done? Or is there a shift that needs to take place that's not happening? Or is it just people that are kind of set in the way used to be done, in your opinion? Any thoughts on that?

Geoffrey (06:00):

I think leadership as a whole is taught very differently, right? And different points in time, different generations, the way that they have been taught leadership in some ways was command and control, which some would argue is more like transactional. And as we further see, we've got how many different generations, some people say five, some people say six. Whatever the number is, we've got more generations in the workforce than ever. And what we know is that our younger and our future generations have a much different view of leadership than previous ones. And we know that connection, respect, empathy, really this desire to understand that it's not going to just be the status quo, is not going to be the future of leadership when we look at all the different generations.

(06:51):

And so it's really incredibly important that we have leaders in healthcare that can relate and understand and demonstrate empathy and not judge. I always say nobody should be judging on generations. I am the first to say I'm a millennial, but that doesn't mean right away go in and talk about, "Well, millennials leave jobs." That has no business in this conversation. What does have is how do we work together to achieve outcomes and results? And ultimately, I think if a leader can find connection with a person and help drive them, mentor them to achieve results, everyone's going to be rowing the or in the right direction.

Jim (07:32):

That's a great point. And you mentioned, I think it's huge, where leaders, great leaders have an ability to connect with their employees from different generations. It's a necessity. Like you said, there's more generations in the workforce today than ever before. That's a great point. So it's obvious how this shortage in workforce, and you mentioned the clinical, but all across healthcare, it's obvious how that shortage impacts patient care directly. How does this unpreparedness for the next generation, how is it affecting patient care? If you can name some specific examples or describe that a little bit more.

Geoffrey (08:08):

Yeah, I think to your point, we have significant access to care delays in the healthcare system today where whether you're going for an imaging study, whether you're waiting to get an appointment for whatever it may be, cardiac related, oncology related, we have a really challenging situation where you have a situation where literally I talk to people across the country and they're like, "Well, I was supposed to get this study done, but the person who was going to do the study called out sick and they didn't have somebody else to do it." That's the reality that we sit in today, and we have to really address that.

(08:44):

And that's really where that industry and academic connection comes in, where we've got to get strong connections where we're working together to make sure that not only do we have all the right programs to support the workforce, but that industry and academia are also coming together to talk to accrediting bodies, to talk to licensing boards because sometimes what's in place from a licensure end and from an accreditation end is not necessarily helping address these issues. We sit in a time of 2024 where some licensing standards and accreditation standards have been there for 40 or more years. Well, this is a very different world and a very different healthcare workforce today.

(09:27):

And so I can't stress enough that importance that we really are fully integrated working as one towards the exact same outcome that we all want. Colleges want to produce students that go into the workforce with credentials that ultimately can have the impact that they all want them to have. Obviously, employers need them more than ever. And the more that we can really build, that puts us in a much stronger position.

(09:52):

The other point I would just highlight is, look, access to care and access to education go hand in hand. But what we also know is that these access to care delays have a significant impact on the bottom line of the healthcare system. If you study it over time, whether it's an imaging study, whether it's other diagnostic related things, anytime you don't have the workforce to operate a specific piece of medical equipment, just on reimbursement alone, you could be looking at a million dollars a month.

(10:24):

I mean, just think about that. When you think about that in the healthcare system, how much workforce costs. But then if you don't have the workforce to help operate the equipment that allows care to happen, they're not able to reimburse for it. And so there's a significant implication there as well. And so that's why these things are so important. First, people. But second, process and the impact and the financial is really critical.

Jim (10:49):

And we will get into that. That was actually my next question, but before we get to that, if you're just tuning in, you're listening to the Healthcare Leadership Experience, and I'm your host, Jim Cagliostro. 

This show is sponsored by VIE Healthcare Consulting, a SpendMend company, which provides leading edge financial and operational consulting for hospitals, healthcare institutions, and other providers of patient care. 

Since 1999, VIE has been a recognized leader in healthcare costs, hospital purchased services, healthcare benchmarking, supply chain management, and performance improvement. 

You can learn more about VIE Healthcare Consulting at viehealthcare.com.

(11:26):

So Geoffrey, you mentioned the impact on the bottom line. Obviously, these things impact patient care, so we understand that. How does this unpreparedness in workforce development affect the financial stability of hospitals and health systems? You gave an example, but if we can dig into that a little bit.

Geoffrey (11:42):

Yeah. Yeah. So obviously there's the reimbursement side of it to that example. But the other piece we have to think about is there's the exorbitant cost part of it. So access to care is delayed, ultimately they're probably going to end up in the emergency room. And then when you look at that situation, that care is going to be so much more costly than it could have been if that care wasn't necessarily delayed on the front end. While at the same time, we know workforce, people, still remain one of the top costs in our healthcare system for every single employer.

(12:16):

And so most healthcare systems have tried to do their best to not have as many travel staffing occurring in all facets of the organization. And as part of that, obviously some have none today, many still do, but those costs are exorbitant. But the ultimate element is when patients can't get the access to care when they need it, that condition can get worse, diagnoses can be delayed, and it just can further add up and add up to a very expensive healthcare system as we know that ultimately is not going to be good for the entire holistic sense.

Jim (12:49):

And if I can add my 2 cents there, just on a personal note, that delay in care, you've mentioned that a few times, and that's huge. I think obviously first on the quality of care, when care is delayed, you think of something like cancer and sometimes, "Hey, time is the person's health. We need to address it right away." When there's a delay in care, it directly impacts the quality of the care that's being provided, but then you'll see the compounding issues in terms of the financial you mentioned, a visit to the ER. Or if a health condition worsens, the care is obviously more complicated, more expensive. So I mean, those are all great points, Geoffrey. I appreciate you bringing up that.

(13:25):

And I also appreciate you mentioned about the access to care and the access to education are very closely rated. If I can ask you just to say a little bit more on that. That connection, is that something that you've seen throughout all time? Is that something that's more recent? And then how do we address that? I think that's kind of my next question, is that access to care and access to education being so closely connected, what are some things we need to prioritize in order to prepare the next generation of workforce?

Geoffrey (13:54):

Yeah, so we definitely have to think about it from the vantage point that we have to attract more to the profession. If you think about it, for many years, this wasn't a challenge. Most people were like, "Well, I want to be a doctor or a nurse." Either they went on and achieved that in nursing school or medical school, or they realized as part of that, "Well, I don't want to be a nurse, but you know what? I'll do respiratory therapy, or I'll do something else."

(14:19):

Today, we sit in a very different time where we have far less individuals expressing interest in healthcare careers as a whole. And we also sit at a time where we have a challenge where so many healthcare programs, particularly at the community college level, which have historically been our biggest supplier of our clinical healthcare roles are capped or they don't have any additional seats currently available. We get into accreditation issues there. We get into faculty student ratios there, but it's a very real issue.

(14:52):

So I'll give you an example. In imaging, which is so important to all facets of our healthcare system from a diagnoses standpoint to helping the whole care delivery system to rural, suburban, urban communities across this country, you have, in 2023, the professional association, ASRT, surveyed community colleges. And what that survey said was that roughly just over 13,600 students qualified for a community college program in imaging were turned away.

Jim (15:30):

Wow, can you say that number again? 13,000?

Geoffrey (15:33):

Just over 13,600 qualified students turned away from community colleges across the country. Now, we know nursing has even worse numbers when it comes to community colleges. And here's the fact these community colleges are not turning them away because they want to. They're turning them away because of accreditation. They're turning away because they don't have enough room, seats, faculty to student ratio, a whole host of things.

(16:00):

But if we as industry don't work to solve that and find innovative and creative ways to join together to talk to the accrediting bodies, to work with the licensing boards, we're going to only further perpetuate that reality becoming far worse. And so we've got to be really data-driven, evidence-based and realize that to your earlier point, time is of the essence. This has a significant impact to patients. This has also a significant impact to the workforce, the existing workforce, because think about burnout, think about moral injury, think about stress. We don't have enough people to help you, everything's on you. Not going to be an easy situation. And then ultimately it has a huge impact to the financial. And so you kind of have this multiple effect occurring, and we've got to be all in to try and address it.

Jim (16:56):

Those great points, I mean, I love the fact that you brought up we have to be data driven, we have to be evidence-based in this. And it's such a huge point. I think we struggle with that saying, "Hey, you know what? That's their problem. That's the college's problem, or that's this hospital system's problem," where you mentioned, I think it's probably the main point that I want to reemphasize is we have to be unified. We're in this together because what happens in the schools affects the hospitals. What happens in the hospitals ultimately affects the patients, and the bottom line, like you mentioned.

(17:25):

Geoffrey, all of this is great stuff, and I know there's so much... I mean, I'll mention to our audience, Geoffrey is very active on LinkedIn. If you're in LinkedIn, please follow him because you put out some great stuff. And I'd really like to leave our audience just with any leadership advice that you could give, especially in healthcare, but really anything that you've learned throughout your career or anything you feel that's carried you through in terms of leadership. What's something that we can leave with the audience today?

Geoffrey (17:52):

Yeah, I think particularly if you are a leader, make sure you're mentoring and that you are giving back to help others achieve their dreams. And if you're seeking a mentor, certainly people that have not necessarily been a mentor, think about mentoring others too. Everybody we know, based on data, particularly in healthcare today, needs a mentor. This is not an easy industry, but it is the most fulfilling industry to ever serve in. But we know that with a mentor, it's not going to be easy, but it certainly can be a bit easier along the journey. And so that's what I would certainly leave you with.

Jim (18:29):

I'll give my amen to that. That's a great point. Thank you, Geoffrey. Thank you for being on the show today. And thank you to our listeners who spent time with us. If you have any questions about VIE Healthcare Consulting, a SpendMend company, or if you want to reach out to me or Lisa Miller, you can find us on LinkedIn. We at SpendMend love helping hospitals uncover financial leakage and improve the patient experience. We're hoping... Not just hoping. I know that today's episode gave you some new insights and maybe some things to consider and use in your career and your own healthcare organization. So Geoffrey, thank you once again for being on the show. Thanks for being with us today.

Geoffrey (19:03):

You're so welcome. Thanks for having me.

Speaker (19:07):

Thanks for listening to the Healthcare Leadership Experience podcast, we hope you've enjoyed this episode. If you're interested in learning new strategies, best practices, and ideas to utilize in your career and healthcare organization. Check out our website at thehealthcareleadershipexperience.com. 

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Thanks again for listening.